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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1452
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Posted - 2015.07.27 18:16:17 -
[1] - Quote
Tethys Luxor wrote:I agree, there's no point having both identical gameplay (scan & hack) requiring 2 different skills and using 2 slots on your ship. A lot of explorer do not bother to go after data sites anymore. Special data only sites are not increasing my willingness to put a data module on my ship.
Merge thoses activities or differenciate them more.
Let's also notice that since we have node's number help (which is a good mechanic) it's too easy to hack the red core cans. An increase in best cans' difficulty would be good.
The point is that it takes up two slots and means to tackle any kind of explo site you come across you need either compromise your combat utility by fitting both mods or put yourself at greater risk waiting for a depot to spool up to swap out the module.
It doesn't really matter what the mini game is as those who get bored with such things would get bored just as quickly qith whatever replaced it. They just need to rebalance which sites contain which items to make data and relic sites equally valuable (or not depending on the loot can fairy) to make sure people can't just think "I'm going to hunt in nullsec, relic only required".
I'd rather them put any dev time spent on explo improvements into two things, amending them to contain the parts required to build factiion items from BPC's and explo escalations. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1453
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Posted - 2015.07.27 22:42:55 -
[2] - Quote
Daya sites being generally poor does not mean that CCP needs to drop data hacking. It means they need to balance the sites properly. The sleeper caches are the best exploration change recentlyand that requires excellent hacking skills of both flavours to run effectively. Exploration should be extended along these lines, not cut down and simplified. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1456
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Posted - 2015.07.28 07:35:41 -
[3] - Quote
Chance Ravinne wrote:Rossi Tenmar wrote:No.
It gives you so much easy ISK, it should take some time to train the skills. Yes, "data sites make too much ISK" is the complaint of many an explorer.
Have you run the sleeper caches? They give a very nice return thank you very much :) The reason for the two modules is as I stated previously: enforced fitting choices. It also means you need to pick the correct analyzer on the correct can in a situation where even a few wasted seconds can blow the site (and your ship). I would also rather the hacks be differentiated but the separate skills and modules are fine.
Just a point on the calls to make explo easier for easy income for newbies. If we have a suddenly much simpler process and more people easily running sites the value of the goods from the sites will plummet. There has to be a balance and the sleeper cache system should be expanded to provide such. Use the same processes and layout to create escalations. Have the hack at such a level that hisec escalations can be followed by tech I analyzer skilled pilots, losec by more experienced hackers, null by tech II capable hackers.
Exploration should be made more involving not quicker and easier. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1458
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Posted - 2015.07.28 10:37:33 -
[4] - Quote
Slim Maken wrote:This change would be a buff to the Nestor. So I'm all for it.
Nestor doesn't need a buff for this, it already has the slots to fit both analyzers and still have a good armour tank. Most people would use a tech III cruiser over the nestor for explo anyway when such a tank i required. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1459
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Posted - 2015.07.28 11:40:30 -
[5] - Quote
Mynxee wrote:...As addicting as it is, the hacking mini-game in its current form is overly repetitive and predictable after doing a few dozen sites....
I don't think it is meant to be too involving but rather a time factor to put a pilot at risk and/or under time pressure. Any mini-game will become repetitive the amount of times even a moderate explorer would run them. Make it too complex and you push up the at risk time and would therefore have to buff the reward in compensation.
Mynxee wrote: I would also like the cans to be unscannable. You should have to complete the hack to find out what's in a can.
I don't think this should be the case as again it gives the choice to a player of sacrifice a slot for a scanner or hack the lot. I do the latter as despawning a site can trigger a new sig. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1459
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Posted - 2015.07.28 11:42:06 -
[6] - Quote
rofflesausage wrote:Merge the modules, but make the new one scriptable. Different scripts for each type of site.
This allows for the sites to be differentiated if CCP get around to it, but also allows for newer types of sites by simply adding a new script to the game.
...
It also removes the need to choose between sacrificing an extra midslot or not. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1463
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Posted - 2015.07.28 20:13:53 -
[7] - Quote
Garai Nolen wrote:... Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:Have you run the sleeper caches? ... The reason for the two modules is as I stated previously: enforced fitting choices. If I'm exploring, non-combat, I only fit a data analyzer if I have spare fitting I already don't care about. The current state of data sites makes the fitting argument irrelevant. Sleeper caches would be a great potential exception, except... combat. Any ship capable of solo'ing them is already facing refit downtime and carrying a mobile depot. Fitting choices lose relevance when you can refit anywhere within 60s and already have to anyway in order to switch between combat , hacking, and travel roles....
That's interesting as I solo all the sleeper caches whenever I find them without the need to refit, refit can help if you know which resists to shift to for the next damage type but to be honest I don't normally bother as it isn't necessary in the right ship.
Time is a factor on these sites, if you don't want someone coming in and despawning the site or worse triggering the nastiness then you'd better be quick. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1463
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Posted - 2015.07.28 21:40:07 -
[8] - Quote
Rather than merge the modules it would be better I think to merge the sites, have the sigs show up as a new sig name and have them conatin both data and relic cans for different purposes, with the data cans giving BPC's and such along with better access to better cans, and the relic cans giving parts and loot.
The hacking game isn't intended to be a major brain test but rather a time sink to put you at risk. Make it take too long and the risk becomes unbalanced, make it require too much focus and you turn sites into death traps in lower sec space. There's nothing wrong with the current system in my opinion, just the sites need to be improved.
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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1463
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Posted - 2015.07.29 08:45:01 -
[9] - Quote
Garai Nolen wrote:...
I guess my point was simply that fitting for these just isn't a problem for explo cruisers in general. I imagine the Limited Sleeper Cache makes frigate fitting somewhat interesting, the same way trying to fit a covops frig for ghost sites can be pretty tight. So yeah I accept that for a few situations when you are forced into frigates and sites have interesting/unique mechanics, there can be some non-trivial fitting decisions. Except for ghost sites the frigate tradeoffs would exist even post merge, since you can already use either analyzer type. Generally I don't think those cases are providing sufficient gameplay value to justify not merging these skills.
In hisec it's not such an issue as you can drop the depot for swapping out (though I don't, I'm happy with the fits I have) but in lo and null sec this becomes much more of an issue, especially since dropping a depot is a red flag for scanning down in those areas.
My point is that rather than removing skills and choices the gameplay should be enhanced to make exploration richer and give more meaning to having the two skills. As for training both skills to V right now trust me, having done so gives me a huge advantage ion the sleeper caches over someone who hasn't. You would be very lucky to clear a standard site on tech I analyzers I think.
My suggestion for an improved explo experience would be that hacking sites contain both data and relic cans that contain loot, but also contain data cans that control the environment in the same way that the sleeper caches use them. Successful hack opens up new areas, drags in more cans, switches of/on damaging effects etc. Also there should be escalations but you need to successfully hack every can in the site to trigger them.
Basically enrich the gameplay rather than dilute the existing game.
I 100% agree with those who have suggested that faction items be built from BPC's and loot from these sites too, this would improve the market, exploration and industry all in one hit. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1463
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Posted - 2015.07.29 10:41:27 -
[10] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:Aralieus wrote:Also make data sites not suck so hard. Please do tell how? Make data sites drop the raw materials we use to make implants. Then have the LP stores and loot drops stop providing complete implants - but rather only sell the BPC for the implants.
Currently implant parts come from PI so I'd keep it that way for those, I'd have the data sites drop parts for Faction modules instead, with relic sites providing other parts and BPC's. Make the data sites drop the less rare items and the BPC's (they are data after all) and the relic sites drop the more rare items and maybe BPC's too to balance the sites. |
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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1463
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Posted - 2015.07.29 11:00:05 -
[11] - Quote
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote: instead of merging these into one, they should be made more distinct from each other. this gets my vote THIS! I want to see an archaeology minigame like digging trenches!
I'll need a faction beard and pipe to improve my success chances. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1463
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Posted - 2015.07.29 16:01:03 -
[12] - Quote
Lady Rift wrote:...Look at data now currently its a separate system and it is worthless outside of very specific sites that I'm not even sure can be run solo without changing fits (I always change fits or run alts have't tried solo with no depot)
They can very much be run solo with the skills fully trained up and actually learning how to defeat the defenses. All explo should move in this direction rather than asking for it to be degraded further. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1471
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Posted - 2015.07.31 10:06:55 -
[13] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:... And on a personal note: I run almost every Data Site I can find in my area of space because they allow me to be independent from the decryptor market, as I can satisfy my entire decryptor needs with them.
They also frequently trigger another sig when cleared which can give you a nice headstart on it if it's a combat site. |
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